Times are shown is U.S. - Mountain Standard Time
-
@Angie i've got it in my email. how do i get it to you?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:49:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:49:25 AM" ) )8:49 PM
-
@ALL someone put up 4 pics with the most common said things from all the people involved in this.........anyone know where it is??? Going to throw them up on the FB wall as suggested by Marie Rich........These guys will need money at some stage and something like this may help.
by Angie at 3/31/2011 2:48:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:48:38 AM" ) )8:48 PM
-
@Sin Yes. What's the crowning achievement of durable construction in this world? The pyramids at ~5,000 years? Maybe the sphinx at a possible watermark indicated 10,000? I wonder if we can do better.
by radioguy at 3/31/2011 2:48:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:48:25 AM" ) )8:48 PM
-
by Pat at 3/31/2011 2:48:23 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:48:23 AM" ) )8:48 PM
-
Japanese Plant Had Barebones Risk Plan TOKYO—Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s disaster plans greatly underestimated the scope of a potential accident at its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, calling for only one stretcher, one satellite phone and 50 protective suits in case of emergencies.
online.wsj.com
Disaster-response documents for Fukushima Daiichi, examined by The Wall Street Journal, also contain few guidelines for obtaining outside help, providing insight into why Japan struggled to cope with a nuclear crisis after an earthquake and tsunami devastated the facility.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:48:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:48:11 AM" ) )8:48 PM
-
@VeenOui THEN ABOUT D*MN TIME ! save the people !
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:47:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:47:13 AM" ) )8:47 PM
-
@marie rich A Flash is Brand New and yet to be worded into a wire
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 2:45:46 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:45:46 AM" ) )8:45 PM
-
@VeenOui This one?? thecitiZenpost: Japan's nuclear safety agency says govt must consider expansion of evacuation zone -Reuters - #japan #quake #fukushima
2 minutes ago via txt
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:44:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:44:56 AM" ) )8:44 PM
-
The scale of this, that it can be dangerous to life for hundreds of thousands of years is just hard to grasp for most people I think.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:44:54 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:44:54 AM" ) )8:44 PM
-
Just 75 miles from where workers try to stave off nuclear disaster at Fukushima, another nuke plant is doing double duty as a tsunami shelter. The nuclear facility at Onagawa is currently home to 240 people displaced from the local town, who are hanging around watching TV and making phone calls while they wait to rebuild. It’s the clean, roomy, safe, well-lighted and equipped with toilets.
by Pat at 3/31/2011 2:43:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:43:57 AM" ) )8:43 PM
-
@dan That's the trillion dollar question. Second question, are they going to continue to climate-deny and not take into account that this site could be under water before the century is done. Realistically, they should probably be coming up with some design that is ultimately meant to be submerged and draws on seawater for some continued cooling.
by radioguy at 3/31/2011 2:42:35 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:42:35 AM" ) )8:42 PM
-
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 2:41:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:41:36 AM" ) )8:41 PM
-
Picked this up from the ars technica board, although it looks like Jo already reached this conclusion: "Of course, for decreased pressure, the water would have to be moving past the sensor on the bottom of the RPV, indicating a sure-fire breach"
arstechnica.comby kaykodh at 3/31/2011 2:41:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:41:21 AM" ) )8:41 PM
-
@Sin I wish I was back in the game. I LOOOVED it.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:41:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:41:13 AM" ) )8:41 PM
-
In the intial evacuation, there was a lot of radiation checks and people were given little cards that said they were radiation clear. That may have come out bad with for people that didnt' have the cards.
by Pat at 3/31/2011 2:41:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:41:04 AM" ) )8:41 PM
-
@marie rich Just crossed as FLASH
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 2:40:55 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:40:55 AM" ) )8:40 PM
-
@VeenOui Joke? Where's the link?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:40:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:40:28 AM" ) )8:40 PM
-
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:39:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:39:36 AM" ) )8:39 PM
-
Here is the google map of the area to get a better visualization of the scope so far as a geographical region.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:39:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:39:21 AM" ) )8:39 PM
-
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 2:39:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:39:12 AM" ) )8:39 PM
-
by Apollo at 3/31/2011 2:38:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:38:44 AM" ) )8:38 PM
-
@marie rich Nice....Im not that privileged...but in the future I may need to be.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:38:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:38:06 AM" ) )8:38 PM
-
BreakingNews Breaking News
Japan nuclear safety agency: Government must consider expanding evacuation zone around Fukushima plant - Reuters
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 2:37:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:37:52 AM" ) )8:37 PM
-
“No, no, no, we didn’t even have basic knowledge about radiation,” Takayama said emphatically, when asked if the team had been trained for such a scenario.
At a staging area about 20 miles from the plant, Takayama and his men were given only vague instructions from Tokyo Electric Power Co., which operates the facility. They had no map as they drove into the darkness and pulled the lead fire truck between reactors No. 2 and 3. Workers holding monitors shouted out the changing radiation levels in the air as the men, wearing protective clothing, hooked up a 220-pound fire hose to the super-pump truck drawing seawater from the ocean.
by Apollo at 3/31/2011 2:37:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:37:28 AM" ) )8:37 PM
-
@Meretisa I was kidding. It'll come up again down the road. no worries
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:37:27 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:37:27 AM" ) )8:37 PM
-
Here's an extract from a fascinating article about a Tokyo Fire Captain & his pin-up model daughter:
by Apollo at 3/31/2011 2:37:19 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:37:19 AM" ) )8:37 PM
-
hi Meretisa did you get the things I posted in here ok ?
by dean at 3/31/2011 2:36:37 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:36:37 AM" ) )8:36 PM
-
how hard would it be to entomb the 4 reactors, given they are right next to the sea?
by dan at 3/31/2011 2:36:34 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:36:34 AM" ) )8:36 PM
-
George are you on now?
by dean at 3/31/2011 2:36:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:36:11 AM" ) )8:36 PM
-
@marie rich I'm trying to stay on top of this all, but seriously am not able to do it all... hence with the admins on that page. george and i are in discussions how to make it work better.
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 2:36:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:36:10 AM" ) )8:36 PM
-
@SIN TS-CW
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:35:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:35:53 AM" ) )8:35 PM
-
@Sin I understand exactly. had the highest one, at one time
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:35:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:35:21 AM" ) )8:35 PM
-
@marie rich So, I have clearance, which I have to maintain in my profession, and have to be careful with what I can reveal.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:34:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:34:31 AM" ) )8:34 PM
-
oops, not done! Conditions to Avoid
Temperatures above 230 degrees C for short residence times.
Temperatures above 204 degrees C for long residence times. (hmmm... I'm sure the reactors will be cool soon!) And my last question is: who is going to apply this stuff? The current workers? Someone new? (Unlikely!)
by kaykodh at 3/31/2011 2:34:23 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:34:23 AM" ) )8:34 PM
-
Last post flash animation of reactor at Fukushima.
by Jim Carver at 3/31/2011 2:32:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:32:59 AM" ) )8:32 PM
-
@Optim I tend to agree with you on that point, but still the area would be isolated and we would be told what they wanted us to know....and that's all.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:32:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:32:33 AM" ) )8:32 PM
-
@Sin very very cool. a club I would be honored to be a member of. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a super patriot.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:32:32 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:32:32 AM" ) )8:32 PM
-
by Jim Carver at 3/31/2011 2:32:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:32:02 AM" ) )8:32 PM
-
Okay, Kuricoat C 720 is made of Acetic acid ethenyl ester, polymer with ethene. Looking up the msds sheet of another version of the product (ie. different company, different name, gives the following info: Fire and Explosion Hazards:
UNUSUAL FIRE, EXPLOSION HAZARDS The solid polymer can be
combusted only with difficulty. An electrostatic charge can
potentially build up when pouring pellets. Grounding of equipment
is recommended.
HAZARDOUS COMBUSTION PRODUCTS Complete combustion gives
carbon dioxide and water. Incomplete combustion gives, in
addition, vinyl acetate, acetic acid, carbon monoxide and
hydrocarbon oxidation products including organic acids,
aldehydes, acrolein, and alcohols, oxides of nitrogen.
by kaykodh at 3/31/2011 2:31:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:31:53 AM" ) )8:31 PM
-
@Optim Don't be so optimistic. The Senate and the Black Government has a lot more control of the US media than you think.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 2:31:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:31:52 AM" ) )8:31 PM
-
@Sin, if one watches what the mainstream broadcast media puts on their news and then looks at what most people are expressing as far as an understanding of things it ranks about utterly clueless. There are people that don't have a clue what is going on.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 2:31:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:31:36 AM" ) )8:31 PM
-
@Sin: IF this would have happened in USA, press would be all over it. I stay near DC and their would be upheaval in congress/senate.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:30:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:30:49 AM" ) )8:30 PM
-
Traces of radiation from Japanese nuclear reactors found in Illinois
www.suntimes.comby JenniferP at 3/31/2011 2:30:20 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:30:20 AM" ) )8:30 PM
-
@Optim I know it didn't work on US...be we are a minority. People are sheep and will eat the grass they are fed.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:28:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:28:53 AM" ) )8:28 PM
-
@marie rich I am an ideas girl lol! Mugs as well with the rest of the foolish statements they have been making!
by Angie at 3/31/2011 2:28:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:28:31 AM" ) )8:28 PM
-
by Jim Carver at 3/31/2011 2:28:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:28:21 AM" ) )8:28 PM
-
@Nancy TEPCO is running out of options at Fukushima...they either make themselves responsible for killing quite a few workers and engineers attempting to stop the unstoppable, or they back away.
by James Ward at 3/31/2011 2:28:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:28:02 AM" ) )8:28 PM
-
@Angie what a great idea for a fundraiser!! Meretisa, take notes.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:27:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:27:33 AM" ) )8:27 PM
-
by
Jim Carver via
Rchoetzlein at 3/31/2011 2:27:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:27:31 AM" ) )8:27 PM
-
@James Ward @Sin: These tricks might work on people who are looking at this event casually. for those of us who are well informed and have been following events closely we can see right thru; their web of deceit.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:27:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:27:28 AM" ) )8:27 PM
-
I don't know. I think the 100,000 was big enough that no sigh of relief came to anyone.
by Scilla at 3/31/2011 2:27:05 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:27:05 AM" ) )8:27 PM
-
books.google.com THIS IS FOR MERETISA AND OTHERS.. for photos of the TMI core.. more to come
by dean at 3/31/2011 2:26:46 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:26:46 AM" ) )8:26 PM
-
BREAKING NEWS: China specifies protection of maritime interests in defense paper (11:21) (Kyodo News)
by JenniferP at 3/31/2011 2:26:41 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:26:41 AM" ) )8:26 PM
-
Well I think the government need to go and park their bums in the area around the plant since its "no immediate threat to human health" (need shirts with that on they would sell for sure). How they can get away with ignoring the data astonishes me!
by Angie at 3/31/2011 2:26:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:26:33 AM" ) )8:26 PM
-
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:26:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:26:21 AM" ) )8:26 PM
-
@Optim Agree 100%. I think the "mistaken" 10 million announcement was deliberately done in hopes that they could slip the 100,000 number by those of us watching the disaster unfold.
by James Ward at 3/31/2011 2:25:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:25:28 AM" ) )8:25 PM
-
@Sin rofl
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:25:23 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:25:23 AM" ) )8:25 PM
-
@James - referring to the "they are going to abandon the plant" thing.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 2:25:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:25:11 AM" ) )8:25 PM
-
@Optim and guess what? It worked.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:24:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:24:52 AM" ) )8:24 PM
-
@Meretisa: Dean, can answer better about water leaking from basement question. Unless there has been an explosion in basement highly unlikely though. I presume they spent money on doing a good job on waterproofing and making sure that it survives an explosion.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:24:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:24:39 AM" ) )8:24 PM
-
@Sin NSA or FBI?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:24:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:24:39 AM" ) )8:24 PM
-
@sin...hmmmm....fascinating.
by Maureen Burke at 3/31/2011 2:24:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:24:38 AM" ) )8:24 PM
-
I have contacts there, but can't talk about it.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:23:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:23:48 AM" ) )8:23 PM
-
@Maureen Burke If anyone is reading this blog who has that kind of pull, it's USA intelligence agencies
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:23:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:23:02 AM" ) )8:23 PM
-
@James Ward: TEPCO's lies can barely fool a middle school student now. The other day they actually managed to sound the news of radioactivity level being 100,000 good. They did this by first announcing it was 10 million times more and then retracting. Utter carelessness and/or stupidity
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:22:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:22:47 AM" ) )8:22 PM
-
I told you all last week they are hiring nuke workers from US to go over.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:22:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:22:38 AM" ) )8:22 PM
-
@Maureen Burke If they ARE, they can surely use the help, it would be a good thing.
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 2:22:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:22:25 AM" ) )8:22 PM
-
@Nancy Richard Lahey gave us more than a grain of salt in the Guardian yesterday.
by James Ward at 3/31/2011 2:22:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:22:21 AM" ) )8:22 PM
-
@ Marie- I know!I was reading last night...Either that or Tepco is reading this blog.
by Maureen Burke at 3/31/2011 2:21:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:21:53 AM" ) )8:21 PM
-
@All-- is there a possibility of the radiation coming from a leak in the basement rather than tubes? What is the slope of the landscape?
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 2:21:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:21:29 AM" ) )8:21 PM
-
@Scilla, the Daily Mail doesn't have the best reputation for accuracy. So take it with a grain of salt.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 2:21:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:21:02 AM" ) )8:21 PM
-
@Optim Unfortunately, TEPCO has consistently denied everything since the very beginning...and they've been caught each time they've told a lie.
by James Ward at 3/31/2011 2:21:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:21:01 AM" ) )8:21 PM
-
@Maureen Burke This group anticipated them again-- or, Dean did. Cahrcoal filtering and recycling cooling water.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:20:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:20:25 AM" ) )8:20 PM
-
well..yday it was 3350...bingo..water definitely leaking out to sea or tepco leaking it out deliberately
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:20:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:20:18 AM" ) )8:20 PM
-
The dailymail article shocked me, too. They are having trouble finding workers at this point, so who knows.
by Scilla at 3/31/2011 2:19:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:19:47 AM" ) )8:19 PM
-
@Jennifer, it was around 3300 or 3500 last night.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 2:19:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:19:44 AM" ) )8:19 PM
-
NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 4,385 times legal limit found in seawater near plant (11:16) (Kyodo News)
by JenniferP at 3/31/2011 2:19:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:19:06 AM" ) )8:19 PM
-
@Pat: Acc. to latest news, they won't expand evacuation zone. They don't believe in "better safe than sorry"
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:18:51 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:18:51 AM" ) )8:18 PM
-
@Patrick Kelley and pay close attention near the 1/2 hour mark....
by Dennis Tucker Jr at 3/31/2011 2:18:51 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:18:51 AM" ) )8:18 PM
-
@Optim They don't tell the real reasons until they absolutely have to, if they ever do.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:18:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:18:39 AM" ) )8:18 PM
-
@James Ward: I think they have consistently denied this.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:17:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:17:43 AM" ) )8:17 PM
-
mdn.mainichi.jp TEPCO eyes filtering radioactive substances from water at Japan nuclear plant. .
by Maureen Burke at 3/31/2011 2:17:20 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:17:20 AM" ) )8:17 PM
-
@Sin Actaully I think of them as wife beaters
by Pat at 3/31/2011 2:16:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:16:58 AM" ) )8:16 PM
-
MailOnline: Fukushima nuclear plant to be entombed in concrete as Japan admits it has lost battle with crippled reactors QUOTE: "Japan has finally conceded it has lost the battle to contain radiation at four of its crippled reactors and they will be closed down.
Details of what that will entail have yet to be revealed, but officials said it would mean switching off all power and abandoning attempts to keep the nuclear fuel rods cool.
The final move would involve pouring tonnes of concrete on the reactors to seal them in tombs and ensure radiation does not leak out."
www.dailymail.co.ukby James Ward at 3/31/2011 2:16:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:16:47 AM" ) )8:16 PM
-
@Patrick Kelley Meretisa made the point clear. And it weren't the Russians... it were the Soviets.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 2:16:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:16:18 AM" ) )8:16 PM
-
It is like we live in a feudal world.
by Sin at 3/31/2011 2:16:16 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:16:16 AM" ) )8:16 PM
-
@Optim Does anyone know the wording of the initial evacuation? I mean they are going to tell peole to bring nothing with them, they aren't going to say OK move all your gear, bring your cows, we have transportion and room for your belongings and you can't go back till?
by Pat at 3/31/2011 2:16:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:16:11 AM" ) )8:16 PM
-
by Dennis Tucker Jr at 3/31/2011 2:15:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:15:48 AM" ) )8:15 PM
-
@Optim No problem. I remember hearing about that. These companies MUST be held accountable. LIFE is not worth less than MONEY. :(
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 2:15:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:15:04 AM" ) )8:15 PM
-
I just shudder to think what would have happened if such kind of event happened in a 3rd world country (I hate to use this term). I come from India and I am glad that there are no such seismic zones in and around India. Himalaya region is pretty active but I don;t believe there are nuclear reactors in North India. LAst time a gas leak happened in India, 30,000 ppl died in the city of Bhopal and Dow chemical execs based in USA are still enjoying their freedom. sorry for ranting
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:14:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:14:02 AM" ) )8:14 PM
-
@Patrick Kelley not really. they didn't tell anyone about it until Sweden detected the radiation and got the world wondering what was going on. IMHO
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 2:14:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:14:00 AM" ) )8:14 PM
-
The russians treated their people better.
by Patrick Kelley at 3/31/2011 2:13:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:13:30 AM" ) )8:13 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus I could visualize a tent city on the deck of an aircraft carrier
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 2:13:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:13:21 AM" ) )8:13 PM
-
NEWS ADVISORY: No immediate plan to expand evacuation near plant after IAEA data: Edano (11:10)
NEWS ADVISORY: Japan, acting on IAEA data, to boost radiation monitoring in soil: Edano (11:10)
NEWS ADVISORY: Rain forces TEPCO to cancel resin spray at nuke plant to avoid radiation spread (11:09)
by Patrick Kelley at 3/31/2011 2:13:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:13:10 AM" ) )8:13 PM
-
@Optim There is an utter logistic difference in reallocating a few thousand foreigners that could eventually be flown back home and the hundred thousand plus Japanese residents that don't have anywhere else to go. But I do agree that they should be swifter in these kind of decisions.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 2:12:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:12:03 AM" ) )8:12 PM
-
@kaykodh- thanks...so the reason no cesium 137 reported in Spokane milk is because only iodide detected. Even though I know little to worry about stateside thus far- still good news- I have a 3 yr old granddaughter in the greater Spokane area.
by karronna at 3/31/2011 2:11:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:11:10 AM" ) )8:11 PM
-
Latest results from Berkeley (UCB) on testing milk. Only I-131 is present, and in minimal amounts.
www.nuc.berkeley.eduby kaykodh at 3/31/2011 2:09:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:09:28 AM" ) )8:09 PM
-
by Maureen Burke at 3/31/2011 2:08:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:08:13 AM" ) )8:08 PM
-
@Optim I would be guessing that the logistics of moving that many people and finding shelter for them would be the hold up..........lets hope its that and not the fact the they are not going to move people!
by Angie at 3/31/2011 2:08:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:08:08 AM" ) )8:08 PM
-
work phone.. be back later..
by dean at 3/31/2011 2:06:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:06:50 AM" ) )8:06 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus: Wonder what is japanese govt. waiting for then? They should give evacuation orders right away. the only thing is that they will look as fools. USA and other countries gave evacuation orders for a much larger area 10 days back.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:06:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:06:00 AM" ) )8:06 PM
-
@wtm JAIF relies on the data supplied to them
by Dennis Tucker Jr at 3/31/2011 2:05:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:05:28 AM" ) )8:05 PM
-
@wtm: They say that no cracks are evident. Measurement is the only source of verification right? There is no way they can visually identify, true?
by Optim at 3/31/2011 2:04:24 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:04:24 AM" ) )8:04 PM
-
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 2:04:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:04:14 AM" ) )8:04 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus re IAEA.... About bloody time! Lets hope they listen and hurry up and get it increased fast......saw a story on Nhk the other night and there are still pregnant women in there who have no idea where to go or what to do! Re filter/tanker.......I am sure I heard somthing about it last night at the Tepco press conference at 12:30am Japan time.....Katz was translating it.
by Angie at 3/31/2011 2:04:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:04:03 AM" ) )8:04 PM
-
@Angie, last I heard they were being slowed by radioactive water in places they needed to work.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 2:03:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:03:21 AM" ) )8:03 PM
-
@Jo, JAIF report said NISA is stating that CV in #2 & 3 may be breached to outside air, due to the pressure readings they are seeing, but JAIF is saying that no cracks in the vessels. are evident
by wtm at 3/31/2011 2:01:37 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:01:37 AM" ) )8:01 PM
-
@Angie That story about the tanker and the filter system are part of some suggestions, I believe, emanated by some of the contributors to this blog. I haven't seen that on the news yet.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 2:01:23 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:01:23 AM" ) )8:01 PM
-
A lot of people keep asking about robots, well I found an article from about 30 minutes ago that said America decided to send radiation measuring robots to Japan next week from western Idaho.
www3.nhk.or.jp (Japanese)
by borrrden at 3/31/2011 2:00:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 2:00:31 AM" ) )8:00 PM
-
@Angie Also IAEA suggested to the Japanese Government that the evacuation area should be increased from 20km to 40km after some findings from IAEA and Greenpeace scientists.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 1:59:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:59:31 AM" ) )7:59 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus@ wtm have they got the tanker organised yet?? And the last I heard last night they were working on fixing/getting a filter system to help get rid of the radiation in the water, any progress on that?
by Angie at 3/31/2011 1:58:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:58:43 AM" ) )7:58 PM
-
#Angie, they are desperately trying to create places to dump this water on the plant property.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:57:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:57:43 AM" ) )7:57 PM
-
@Angie Latest development has been the continuing pumping of the radioactive water found inside the turbine buildings into other containments. That procedure is ongoing.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 1:55:37 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:55:37 AM" ) )7:55 PM
-
@jo, I think both #2 & 3 are doing the same things according to what I am seeing in the pressures.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:55:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:55:00 AM" ) )7:55 PM
-
@VeenOui, I watched the movie on Chernobyl you recommended the other day. The movie is more a portray of this anti-nuke physicist Pflugbeil who goes on his quest to uncover the actual release of radioactive material from Chernobyl. Pflugbeil grew up in East Germany (GDR) and spent most of his life there. He became member of the Academy of Sciences there and held a minister without portfolio post in the last anti-establishment government, he held this job, because the GDR owned a nuclear power plant with reactors of the RMBK type on the Polish border at that time, and ever since he pondered the question. After finally visiting the reactor sarcophagus at Chernobyl in 2001, he comes to the conclusion that much more radioactivity must have been released. It is a somber movie mixed with footage from the clean up. The scenes reminded of "The Stalker". The clean up crew must have known that this was highly dangerous. They are running and trucks drive real fast. Did they know that many would not live to see retirement? Lots is left to speculation. The only hard fact is, he visited the plant 15 years after the accident and his meter read 150 microSv/hr outside the buildings at the plant.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:54:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:54:59 AM" ) )7:54 PM
-
NP i can google
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:53:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:53:12 AM" ) )7:53 PM
-
thanks, Dean;
and thanks to everyone for your presence, your ideas and your sharing,
have a nice day / night !
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:53:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:53:06 AM" ) )7:53 PM
-
@ Jo awesome work!!! @Dean thanks no "really" bad things is good!
by Angie at 3/31/2011 1:53:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:53:03 AM" ) )7:53 PM
-
nancy.. <<< GOOGLEHOLIC... .. I just did google search and found them.. I will find link
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:52:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:52:49 AM" ) )7:52 PM
-
Big man, @Jo Lindien!
by alblee at 3/31/2011 1:52:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:52:42 AM" ) )7:52 PM
-
@jo goodnight, sleep well, if not long
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:52:20 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:52:20 AM" ) )7:52 PM
-
@Dean, where did you find the TMI picture?
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:52:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:52:13 AM" ) )7:52 PM
-
@dean: What's up with r#5 and r#6 leaking out radioactive water. Yday they were saying that. There were couple of links in this forum articulating that
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:52:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:52:04 AM" ) )7:52 PM
-
JO.. thank you for your dedication.. you don't know how much your appreciated.. rest well... try to focus on pleasant dreamies..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:51:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:51:38 AM" ) )7:51 PM
-
@dean: I will take a look. But I really need to sleep for while now: it's nearly 4am and I need to go to work in the morning....
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:50:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:58 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
Dean, thanks - I thought so.
by Markfm at 3/31/2011 1:50:54 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:54 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
Oh yeah...large scale radiaton monitoring and decontamination
by Pat at 3/31/2011 1:50:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:49 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
@dean thanks. yes please.
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:50:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:30 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
TMI FUEL CORE AFTER ACCIDENT - DAMAGE
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:50:27 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:27 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
I will post a photo of the inside of TMI.core so you can see how the tubing that contained the fuel pellets looked and how the fuel assemblies are pretty much disarranged etc.
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:50:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:06 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
@Sin @Veenoui from that artcile.. I quote "The U.S. military has barred its personnel in Japan from entering a 50-mile radius of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, though exceptions are made for certain relief missions.
The new Marine unit will not be allowed within that 50-mile exclusion area and, if needed, will provide personnel decontamination and monitoring support from Yokota Air Base outside of Tokyo, a defense official said. " I believe this is the key and real reason why they are being sent.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:50:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:50:00 AM" ) )7:50 PM
-
@wtm: which reactor ?
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:49:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:49:57 AM" ) )7:49 PM
-
I believe so markfm..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:49:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:49:29 AM" ) )7:49 PM
-
Still on the human events page...Enlarging the evacuation area would force at least (?) 130,000 (?)people to move in addition to the 70,000 already displaced. Also plans need to be made for the hospitals, livestock, equipment, belongings, buiness records...
by Pat at 3/31/2011 1:49:24 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:49:24 AM" ) )7:49 PM
-
Thanks, @Angie, would be best to scroll back and find whatever interests you. Or you can visit the pinned links for added edification.
by alblee at 3/31/2011 1:49:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:49:02 AM" ) )7:49 PM
-
that's it angie.. some parameters changing,,, jo is tracking like a pro... but no really bad things
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:49:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:49:02 AM" ) )7:49 PM
-
Quick question - given significant portions of the rods have been above water level for multiple days, is it poetry much a given that the top 1 - 1.5 meters of those rtos have melted?
by Markfm at 3/31/2011 1:48:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:48:59 AM" ) )7:48 PM
-
@Meretisa There was smoke at Fukushima Daini nuclear plant
www3.nhk.or.jpby d_news at 3/31/2011 1:48:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:48:40 AM" ) )7:48 PM
-
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:48:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:48:21 AM" ) )7:48 PM
-
@jo sort of like a water bubble in a plumbing pipe?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:48:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:48:04 AM" ) )7:48 PM
-
@Nancy: yes it was reported at many times that #2 torus has breached. And reading the data I got convinced that it's what actually happened...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:47:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:47:48 AM" ) )7:47 PM
-
Ok with Dean and Meretisa..........What is the latest??? No dont tell me I will have a guess.............Its all stable and no imediate threat to human health!
by Angie at 3/31/2011 1:47:41 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:47:41 AM" ) )7:47 PM
-
@all can anyone give me a brief over view of the last 11 hrs please??
by Angie at 3/31/2011 1:47:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:47:38 AM" ) )7:47 PM
-
@Sin That is my guess.how to contain areas and people......
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:47:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:47:29 AM" ) )7:47 PM
-
@jo agreed top of rpv vessel intact. but overall pressure is low. pressure at B is below atmospheric -0.09xxmpa. i wonder if there is a steam bubble trapped between top of vessel and bottom, from water jetted thru feedwater nozzle. and torus is full of small leaks
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:46:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:46:29 AM" ) )7:46 PM
-
@jo, It might indicate the top of the reactor is still OK, but the bottom might be breached. Since the CV is showing outside air pressures there is the possibility that it is breached or cracked but if it has high temps, could be boiling the RV above it and making it go negative pressure
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:46:23 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:46:23 AM" ) )7:46 PM
-
jo.. figure.. inlet nozzle.. 251 C or 483.8 F..... at what pressure?.... one can go to steam tables and see when things flash to steam....
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:46:17 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:46:17 AM" ) )7:46 PM
-
I wonder if the article I just posted indicates some bigger evacuation plan being implemented?
by Sin at 3/31/2011 1:45:37 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:45:37 AM" ) )7:45 PM
-
@all. So...I know this is a very elementary question and doesn't pertain to what is being analyzed in terms of the plant, but is there a reason why the EPA doesn't report cesium 137 levels in the milk? Is it because there are none to report - or ?
by karronna at 3/31/2011 1:45:22 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:45:22 AM" ) )7:45 PM
-
@Sin That is INTERESTING....a HAZMAT team ??
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:44:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:44:59 AM" ) )7:44 PM
-
yep
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:44:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:44:57 AM" ) )7:44 PM
-
Has anyone seen this? Schematic claiming it to be the source of the leaks into the tunnels I think..
fairewinds.comby Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:44:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:44:53 AM" ) )7:44 PM
-
@dean: then, what I understand is that it's designed as a pressure cooker and ends up as a barometer: .1073 MPa at #3, weather is likely to improve !
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:44:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:44:21 AM" ) )7:44 PM
-
US Nuclear Emergency Response Marines Being Sent to Japan
Team Will Not Work in the Efforts at the Troubled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant
Post a Comment
By LUIS MARTINEZ
abcnews.go.com
by Sin at 3/31/2011 1:43:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:43:50 AM" ) )7:43 PM
-
@dean @All... I swear I remember temps at that level like 15th or so. Could someone find out. like 14th or 15th or something. I swear.
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:43:32 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:43:32 AM" ) )7:43 PM
-
@marie rich: my intuition is that negative pressure (relative to atmospheric pressure) indicates that as water is leaking it depressurise the steam above and that it also indicates that the top of the reactor, above the water, is still tight or it would be at atmospheric pressure, with air incoming from the breaches.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:42:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:42:03 AM" ) )7:42 PM
-
The second sentence in this implies they might turn off power and walk away ??
www.dailymail.co.ukby Scilla at 3/31/2011 1:42:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:42:01 AM" ) )7:42 PM
-
@Jo, #1 pressure is up again.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:41:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:41:56 AM" ) )7:41 PM
-
@dean Thanks for explaining :)
by es at 3/31/2011 1:41:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:41:53 AM" ) )7:41 PM
-
@ALL< here is the JAIF data..... Major Data Reactor Water level
(A) -1650mm (B) -1650mm (31st 04:00)
Reactor Water level
-1500mm (31st 04:00)
Reactor Water level
(A) -1900mm, (B) -2300mm (31st 04:40)
Water temperature of SFP (24th 11:00)
(immeasurable)
Reactor pressure
(A) 0.333MPaG, (B) 0.511MPaG (31st 04:00)
Reactor pressure
(A) -0.018MPaG, (B) -0.020MPaG (31st 04:00)
Reactor pressure
(A) 0.020MPaG, (B) -0.090MPaG (31st 04:40)
CV pressure
0.210MPaabs (31st 04:00)
CV pressure
0.110MPaabs (31st 04:00)
CV pressure
0.1073MPaabs (31st 04:40)
RPV temperature (at feed water line nozzle)
251.2℃ (31st 04:00)
Water temperature of SFP
58℃ (31st 04:00)
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:41:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:41:12 AM" ) )7:41 PM
-
1200 C, 2200C AND FULL burn. temps higher
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:41:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:41:02 AM" ) )7:41 PM
-
thats where the temperatures you hear come from on temperatures where the cladding.. zirc begin to break down.. then oxidize and then ignite.
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:40:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:40:42 AM" ) )7:40 PM
-
@ALL, JAIF # 50 report up now.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:40:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:40:01 AM" ) )7:40 PM
-
this is pretty much the standard on design of cores... it's some times explained by water in a pan on the stove that is heated,, at first.. tiny bubles are formed and sweep away the heat at the surface of the pan.. this is the nucleate boiling region and then as the heat increased bigger bubbles form and that is where you get departure from nucleate boiling and the surface of the pan begins to over heat.. and finally at very high temperatures full boiling occurs and no water stays on the surface of the pan and burnout can occur..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:39:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:39:53 AM" ) )7:39 PM
-
NEWSFLASH: American Airlines to suspend 2 daily flights between U.S., Japan (kyodo) Finally some economic effects. This means lost revenue for airlines, airports, hotels, tourism...
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:39:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:39:44 AM" ) )7:39 PM
-
@dean, That's clear as mud !!!!!
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:38:55 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:38:55 AM" ) )7:38 PM
-
@Jo, there were a couple of media mentions of the #2 torus being damaged over the weekend.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:38:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:38:53 AM" ) )7:38 PM
-
@dean: thanks for clarifying this !
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:37:45 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:37:45 AM" ) )7:37 PM
-
@J0, JAIF doesn't seem to want to show anything more negative in their reports.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:37:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:37:43 AM" ) )7:37 PM
-
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:37:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:37:40 AM" ) )7:37 PM
-
@wtm: yes, I noticed that NISA reported #2 torus to be damaged and that seem to be consistent (at least to me) with the collected data they provide
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:36:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:36:49 AM" ) )7:36 PM
-
Meretisa I will get a graph to show you..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:36:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:36:39 AM" ) )7:36 PM
-
then they pick plant paramaters to guard against reaching safety limits... called limiting system safety settings..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:36:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:36:28 AM" ) )7:36 PM
-
so they use the terms .. protection value that is 3 standard deviations from DNB..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:35:54 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:54 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
@Jo but what about the readings in 3 of -0.095 (C)?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:35:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:42 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
secont is reaching the temperature of cladding interaction,, the lastly reaching the condition of zirconium ignition ...
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:35:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:33 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
@dean what does THAT mean??
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:35:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:15 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
@Jo Lindien, as much as I understand that is the normal operating pressure inside the reactor vessel. At reactor #1 that had dropped to less than 1 the next day after the quake, when they managed their first reading.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:35:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:14 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:35:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:35:06 AM" ) )7:35 PM
-
first is REACHING A CONDITION CALLED DEPARTURE FROM NUCLEATE BOILIING.. OR DNB
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:34:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:34:52 AM" ) )7:34 PM
-
jo.. one comment on nuclear design, when it comes to fuel reaching temperatures that can be damaging... , conditions are usually used.. .
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:34:27 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:34:27 AM" ) )7:34 PM
-
@marie rich: at such a pressure, the water level is then likely to be about 7.5 m above #3 torus... Should check if this is consistent with the building dimensiosn....
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:33:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:56 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
@Meretisa: I think that was a mistake...Daiini was in cold shutdown after earthquake and its back up systems worked fine
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:33:55 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:55 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
I need to look those over fitter...
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:33:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:28 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
@dean did you look at P&IDS poted, do you think the pipng componets are in the boundries shon on the drawings
by fitter at 3/31/2011 1:33:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:08 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
@ALL- what was up with Daiini having a fire/smoke?? Yay for Kan wanting to separate NISA from METI.... anything else?
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:33:05 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:05 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
@Jo, did you notice the last NISA report showed #2 as having a damaged torus ??
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:33:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:33:01 AM" ) )7:33 PM
-
@Jo Lindien : OFf topic regarding your post of safety factors...In our field of software development we don't have any such thing..that's why so many bugs :D
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:32:34 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:32:34 AM" ) )7:32 PM
-
I was hoping somebody had the time to put them all on one page so you could compare them, thanks Jo !!!
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:32:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:32:08 AM" ) )7:32 PM
-
@dean COOL @Jo- Great job!!
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:30:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:30:44 AM" ) )7:30 PM
-
jo was awarded the group nobel prize for her investigation of the pressures etc. temps etc.. and determination of when things happened early on ..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:30:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:30:14 AM" ) )7:30 PM
-
@marie rich: it's unlinkely that #3 torus is leaking or maybe just a few water: it's pressure has been stable for one week between .17 and .18 MPa, which is likely to be the pressure of the water column above it.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:29:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:29:47 AM" ) )7:29 PM
-
@Peter, if they could manage to have radiation badges for vet tech's back in the early 90's I would hope they would have something on these workers but looking at how other things are handled I won't hold out hope.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:29:45 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:29:45 AM" ) )7:29 PM
-
I just came in also.... meretisa.. so I'll listen in ..
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:29:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:29:33 AM" ) )7:29 PM
-
@All- been away all day... barely able to even peek here. update?
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:29:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:29:06 AM" ) )7:29 PM
-
by
VeenOui via
Pointscope01.jp at 3/31/2011 1:29:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:29:04 AM" ) )7:29 PM
-
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:28:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:28:50 AM" ) )7:28 PM
-
@NHK Listener I shall now ignore your ignorance *flush*
by shaker at 3/31/2011 1:28:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:28:50 AM" ) )7:28 PM
-
@Dean- hello again.... I'm with you... hellova day
by Meretisa at 3/31/2011 1:28:32 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:28:32 AM" ) )7:28 PM
-
@Nancy talking about #3
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:28:19 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:28:19 AM" ) )7:28 PM
-
@wtm ty
by fitter at 3/31/2011 1:28:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:28:06 AM" ) )7:28 PM
-
@fitter, current TEPCO cam
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:27:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:47 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
HI AGAIN.. what a day.. whewwwwwwwwwwwww...
by dean at 3/31/2011 1:27:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:42 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@jo you think c/v vice torus?
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:27:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:40 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@shaker No but radon will get you in spokane before anything else will
by NHK Listener at 3/31/2011 1:27:32 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:32 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@Nancy , ... or into the sea!
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:27:19 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:19 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@wtm WHAT PIC YOU LOOKING AT
by fitter at 3/31/2011 1:27:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:15 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@marie, what reactor are you referring to?
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:27:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:27:03 AM" ) )7:27 PM
-
@Nancy I grew up in spokane. So no worries
by NHK Listener at 3/31/2011 1:26:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:26:53 AM" ) )7:26 PM
-
@wtm: and #3 containment vessel (ie drywall) is reported have topped at more than .7 MPa from NISA... Not such a surprise that it then breached the next time the pressure rose...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:26:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:26:52 AM" ) )7:26 PM
-
@jo agreed. but i think something did happen in the torus area. not an explosion or even a hole, but multiple failures in the piping, welds, whatever
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:26:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:26:33 AM" ) )7:26 PM
-
@Veen, looks like something is happening around # 3 then
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:26:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:26:12 AM" ) )7:26 PM
-
Yep BUT look at the first picture, you can see inbetween the two but not in the last
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:25:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:25:00 AM" ) )7:25 PM
-
@NHK Listener "West coasters get more harm from sunshine and smog than they do from man made rad releases. " <--- Lamest reply I've noticed in sometime on this thread. You work for the Govt?
by shaker at 3/31/2011 1:24:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:24:44 AM" ) )7:24 PM
-
@Nancy, I'd hope so. I do not know. But if the workers did and the readings were carried out, the plant spokespersons would not use rate in the press releases. Rather, they would use the dose, that is Sievert and not Sievert/h. E.g. this worker was exposed to ... Sv while on the job that day. Instead they are vague like "the rate at the location was this and that, and the guy was exposed for roughly that long" and we are left to guess the rest. Bizarre, is not it? Perhaps I expect too much. Recall the doses are usually determined for the whole body. If they wore badges, they did not wear them in their socks. Their feet were exposed at the quite high dose rates that were later reported for the tainted water. But, little differences do matter, at least to me.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:24:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:24:08 AM" ) )7:24 PM
-
@marie rich: 7400 kPa is 7.4 MPa and is 74 atm !
The torus pressure of .8 Mpa is likely to be false: I think the torus would have exploded far more before reaching this pressure. Dean may be able to confirm...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:24:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:24:02 AM" ) )7:24 PM
-
@Veen, looks like steam or smoke from # 3
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:22:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:22:30 AM" ) )7:22 PM
-
@marie rich: looking the reports close, I figured the water level changed after the containment vessel pressure started to drop, the 20Mar. From NISA reports, water level was stable the 19Mar and they provide torus pressure only for 20Mar mesurements. Here are what I collected from NISA: (reactor CV and SC pressure in MPa)
03/19 12:00 | water -1.950 -2.300 | reactor .078 .117 | CV .1600 | SC ---
03/19 18:30 | water -1.850 -2.300 | reactor .051 .187 | CV .2100 | SC ---
03/20 07:30 | water -1.950 -2.300 | reactor .317 .281 | CV .3400 | SC .1000
03/20 14:00 | water -1.950 -2.350 | reactor .290 .250 | CV .3100 | SC .4000
03/20 16:00 | water -1.650 -2.000 | reactor .263 .220 | CV .2200 | SC .8000
03/21 10:30 | water -1.650 -1.950 | reactor .315 .074 | CV .1600 | SC ---
03/21 14:00 | water -1.600 -2.000 | reactor .144 .018 | CV .1200
03/21 17:00 | water -1.550 -2.025 | reactor .146 .013 | CV .1100
=> water lever slowly recovering, reactor pressure stabilizing to reach:
03/24 10:20 | water -1.900 -2.300 | reactor .036 -.099 | CV .1070 | SC .1990
and follow the atmospheric pressure since then
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:22:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:22:12 AM" ) )7:22 PM
-
@NHK, I looked at the EPA air filter stations. They only list the ones on the coast. They are picking up things but they are pretty small amounts. The iodine dies off quickly so that is less of a worry. The cesium 137 has a longer half life, depending on how long they continue to let things out into the air from the reactors at some point there could be build up to the point it becomes a concern.
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:21:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:21:08 AM" ) )7:21 PM
-
Yo, anybody looked at the last two pictures and compared them ?
Could be me as usual but i am seeing steam not shooting up but to the left....have fun
by VeenOui at 3/31/2011 1:19:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:19:30 AM" ) )7:19 PM
-
@JO it seems like all the pressures went up on the 19th, and the torus pressure esp. h20 level dipped, and everything achieved stasis at a much lower level.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:19:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:19:08 AM" ) )7:19 PM
-
@Jo, pulled this off of one of the NISA reports..interesting, now we know how close it can come before breaching....D/W=drywall vessel D/W*1 design operating
pressure 0.384MPa g(0.485MPa abs) 0.384MPa g(0.485MPa abs) 0.384MPa g(0.485MPa abs)
D/W*1 maximum
operating pressure 0.427MPa g(0.528MPa abs) 0.427MPa g(0.528MPa abs) 0.427MPa g(0.528MPa abs)
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:17:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:17:06 AM" ) )7:17 PM
-
@Jo even at 0.74mPa it ia above normal operating pressure, which is 0.4274mPa. I don't now what design pressure is.
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:13:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:13:36 AM" ) )7:13 PM
-
@inCalifornia West coasters get more harm from sunshine and smog than they do from man made rad releases.
by NHK Listener at 3/31/2011 1:12:26 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:12:26 AM" ) )7:12 PM
-
I hadn't seen it. :-P
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:12:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:12:01 AM" ) )7:12 PM
-
@inCalifornia been posted 2 times already
by NHK Listener at 3/31/2011 1:11:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:11:36 AM" ) )7:11 PM
-
@at absolut e
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:11:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:11:28 AM" ) )7:11 PM
-
@Jo They're graphing it in kPa. we're using mPa so it's 0.74mPa
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:11:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:11:14 AM" ) )7:11 PM
-
Washington State- Low levels of radiation found in Milk
www.sfgate.comby inCalifornia at 3/31/2011 1:09:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:09:38 AM" ) )7:09 PM
-
@Peter, are you thinking or do you know that they are not using some sort of badge to record total doses on employees?
by Nancy at 3/31/2011 1:08:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:08:40 AM" ) )7:08 PM
-
@Jo Ooops the 16:30 20Mar release, which is really the 19Mar reading
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:08:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:08:11 AM" ) )7:08 PM
-
by
NHK Listener via
Pointscope01.jp at 3/31/2011 1:08:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:08:08 AM" ) )7:08 PM
-
@marie rich: look at #3 pressure graphic. The first green point is ~7.4 MPa, which is about 74 atmospheric pressure
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:08:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:08:02 AM" ) )7:08 PM
-
@Jo that was the 16:30 @0Mar release, which is really rhe !(Mar reading
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:07:17 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:07:17 AM" ) )7:07 PM
-
@Optim: I don't know what the rules are for nuclear reactors but I can tell you that when ingeneers do mechanical conception, they do their computations they also apply what is called a "safety factor": if one compute you need a 10 cm high structure to resist and you decide to apply a 3 safety factor, then you actually build a 30 cm high structure; 3 or 4 safety factors are quite commonly used, don't know what's used there...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:06:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:06:48 AM" ) )7:06 PM
-
@Optim, I remember at TMI, experts in national laboratories were running test experiments simulating the reactor conditions to look for the next step to try at the plant. I imagine working groups of specialists all over Japan try to kind of remote control the issues at the plant.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:06:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:06:42 AM" ) )7:06 PM
-
The JAIF Earthquake reports explicitly state that they summarise news aired by NHK, a Japanese national broadcasting company!
by es at 3/31/2011 1:06:09 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:06:09 AM" ) )7:06 PM
-
@Jo I don't remember the 70 atm. but they do change-up reading values; sometimes kPa, ormPa; sometimes at abs. sometimes not. But what I did remember was that the S/P pool pressure went overscale at 0.400mPa on the 20th, while the rpv pressure was still normal.
www.nisa.meti.go.jpby marie rich at 3/31/2011 1:05:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:05:13 AM" ) )7:05 PM
-
by Jo Lindien edited by elainekirk at 3/31/2011 1:03:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:03:12 AM" ) )7:03 PM
-
@wtm:
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:03:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:03:10 AM" ) )7:03 PM
-
@marie rich: we can see on those graphics something happened between 03/19 and 03/20 then the conditions suddenly changed during 03/20 to finally slowly stabilize from 03/22. Water level and pressures then did not change anymore until now, whatever the temperature.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 1:02:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:02:48 AM" ) )7:02 PM
-
@pj, perhaps I should use "additive", that is funny!
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:02:22 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:02:22 AM" ) )7:02 PM
-
@jo the first page (before drilling down) has a lot of good questions/clarifications/sources at bottom.
by joanna at 3/31/2011 1:01:34 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:01:34 AM" ) )7:01 PM
-
@Jo, Marie, I think you are right, will just have to see if they can keep it together ?? Next report out in about 1/2 hour (I hope). Jo, where can i find the NISA reports ??? I always take the JAIF stuff with a grain of salt, They won't even elevate the event code on their report when everyone else is saying its now at least a code 6
by wtm at 3/31/2011 1:00:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:00:58 AM" ) )7:00 PM
-
@Peter Melzer You did - it thinks the first three letters are a bad word LOL!
by pj at 3/31/2011 1:00:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:00:53 AM" ) )7:00 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus, dang, I swear I spelled out "***ulative dosimetry".
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 1:00:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:00:29 AM" ) )7:00 PM
-
@Jo Lindien: The people who run these reactors/who are running these reactors, are they battle tested? There are so many if's and but's. Even if they make a small error of judgement it could be game over. I wonder why for so long did they not ask for any help. I guess the french nuclear engineers went just a day back right. Is it because they finally realized that this is getting out of hand?
by Optim at 3/31/2011 1:00:26 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 1:00:26 AM" ) )7:00 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus, exactly! To me, they are just sticking to conventions, that is rad for the absorbed dose [Gray] and rem [Sievert] for effective absorbed dose in us. I still think in rad and rem, makes it so much easier. Since I never worked in a plant, I wonder how they handle this issue there, since that is the place where the difference between rad and rem really matters. But the experience of the last week makes me shudder. If you really wanted to find out your absorbed dose from an outside source over some period of time, you would use ***ulative dosimetry like with a film badge or a pen or some powder capsule, everything else in my opinion is learned estimation.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 12:58:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:58:59 AM" ) )6:58 PM
-
@joanna @marie rich: #3 graphics are consistent with the data I collected and reported here, with one difference: I read from NISA that the containment pressure topped to more than 7 atm, they are reporting there that the core topped to _70_ atm which is not realistic.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:57:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:57:52 AM" ) )6:57 PM
-
@Jo Lindien I'm quite sure you're right. and so far it's worked/\. they've brought the pressure down by injecting less water. temp might rise some but they seem to have it "stabilized", for now
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 12:56:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:56:06 AM" ) )6:56 PM
-
@wtm: I think #1 reactor is the one that could be driven to cold shutdown in a normal way. The problem for now is the high steam pressure in the reactor vessel. I think Tepco has 2 options:
- they can try to vent the core to release some steam then be able to inject more water to cool down the core. The drawback is that it would release radiations directly from the core.
- they might want to wait until they are able to restart the condensers then start pumping the steam to refresh it and go on cooling the reactor using the normal closed loop.
I think they're trying to keep the reactor in a fragile balance as it is now until they are able to do it the 2nd way and they would only release steam in case of an emergency to avoid a reactor or containment vessel breach, but I may be wrong...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:53:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:53:48 AM" ) )6:53 PM
-
@Jo Look at the torus pressure and water level on the unit 3 graph for 20 Mar. which Joanna just posted
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 12:53:21 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:53:21 AM" ) )6:53 PM
-
@Peter Melzer Ah, thank you. Could you also clarify, are there any gamme emitters that would travel large distances in air?
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:51:26 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:51:26 AM" ) )6:51 PM
-
@Peter Melzer If that is right then a reading on the nanoSieverts wouldn't be of concern.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:49:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:49:30 AM" ) )6:49 PM
-
Sorry, hit enter too soon - when they were checking for radiation, some of the images seem to show them concentrating on the thyroid. I don't think they would see alpha even if there had been radioactive iodine uptake because of the protective membrane on the instrument
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:48:28 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:48:28 AM" ) )6:48 PM
-
@marie rich: I always feel like there are data missing from JAIF reports. NISA seem to have more data, I usually use those ones as references.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:48:00 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:48:00 AM" ) )6:48 PM
-
@pj, that is only to check for iodine-131.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 12:47:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:47:58 AM" ) )6:47 PM
-
@Jo Lindien That is consistent with the TEPCO report. They say half of the rods are still "exposed" meaning, not covered by water.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:47:53 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:47:53 AM" ) )6:47 PM
-
From the ars technica blog:
Graphs of the pressures, temperatures, and water levels in all three reactors are here:
www.ic.unicamp.br
Some on-site radiation measurements are here: www.rchoetzlein.com
by
joanna via
Rchoetzlein at 3/31/2011 12:46:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:46:25 AM" ) )6:46 PM
-
@Peter Melzer Yes, but it was weird they were concentrating on the thyroid area, since the detectors likely wouldn't pick it up - those membranes typically block alpha
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:46:07 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:46:07 AM" ) )6:46 PM
-
Nothing new on kyodo, they must have fixed everything overnight.
by Markfm at 3/31/2011 12:45:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:45:36 AM" ) )6:45 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus, I smell they use factor 1 in area surveys, because the meters mainly pick up gamma-radiation. In order to pick up beta-radiation, the detector would have to be close to the source or the source would have to be very strong. Alpha-radiation needs very special equipment anyways. Someone asked, what it is they saw on the detectors. Geiger counters need a membrane and even others will have be protected form contamination with a thin palstic film.
by Peter Melzer at 3/31/2011 12:45:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:45:15 AM" ) )6:45 PM
-
@Jo Lindien i wonder why the rpv nozzle and head temps are not available. ystdy the temp. was high on unit 2 nozzle @153.7c. that's the only real way to get h2o to core
by marie rich at 3/31/2011 12:44:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:44:56 AM" ) )6:44 PM
-
@fitter: rods are not covered: level is -1.6 meter in #1 reactor, -1.5 in #2, between -1.95 and -2.3 in #3: half of the rods are out of the water in #3, if I'm not wrong (I think I remember rods are about 4.5 meters long)
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:44:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:44:36 AM" ) )6:44 PM
-
@Jo, I had been watching the #1 readings all week, they had been getting higher, and then last night noticed that they put in additional water and they are seeming to start coming down now. If the #2 blew at .7 then the #1 was at .5 yesterday, so it was possibly getting close/
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:43:01 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:43:01 AM" ) )6:43 PM
-
Ooops... I meant 'only the torus is damaged'
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:42:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:42:40 AM" ) )6:42 PM
-
@Jo Lindien help me here ... do you agree rods are covered, only recircultion/cooling system is by way off breach... would then the water be either evaporating (PRODUCING PRESSURE OR AT LEAST NOT VACUUM) OR IT COULD BE BOILING AGAIN PRODUCUNG PRESS/STEAM?? WHERE IS MY LOGIC GONE ASTRAY???
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:42:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:42:18 AM" ) )6:42 PM
-
@elainekirk: every idea is good to look at, no need to be sorry !
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:41:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:41:49 AM" ) )6:41 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Ha ha - nuclear barometer!
by es at 3/31/2011 12:41:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:41:43 AM" ) )6:41 PM
-
Okay, I need a little teaching here - if something could please help me out, which isotopes are we worried about spreading over an extremely wide area? I thought they were mostly alpha and/or beta emitters? Are there gamma emitters that will travel huge distances? ie: across oceans
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:40:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:40:44 AM" ) )6:40 PM
-
#3 nuclear barometer tell us atm pressure is low: .1064 MPa. Then it's raining, was .1085 2 days ago, .1075 yesterday with the sun, that's consistent.
#2 containment vessel is reported at .1 MPa which is under atm pressure; I hope that's true so we can assume on the torus is damaged.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:39:45 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:39:45 AM" ) )6:39 PM
-
@matsuoko@jo I will learn to stop looking at the webcam sorry for interupting
by elainekirk at 3/31/2011 12:38:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:38:56 AM" ) )6:38 PM
-
I am afraid to say that terrorists will be taking a close look at how scenario is unfolding. Another potential way for them to wreak havoc.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:37:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:37:30 AM" ) )6:37 PM
-
@all: Looks like it might rain..it's cloudy. That's bad...
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:35:43 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:43 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
@elainekirk: I guess it's fog because the fog seem to be very close to the sea on the horizon and there's fog between the cam and the cliff in the background
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:35:36 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:36 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
@elainekirk : fog
by Matsuoko at 3/31/2011 12:35:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:25 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
@Matsuoko I think that is unavoidable after Greenpeace findings.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:35:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:13 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus You've made me a very happy man. Off to bed now. Thanks again everyone.
by Duncan at 3/31/2011 12:35:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:13 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
Lol @ Rob: For washington state officials 30 years is really short.
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:35:07 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:07 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
@Jo, here was the data from the last JAIF report last night (their time)Major Data Reactor Water level
(A) -1600mm (B) -1600mm (30th 13:00)
Reactor Water level
-1500mm (30th 13:00)
Reactor Water level
(A) -1850mm, (B) -2250mm (30th 13:00)
Water temperature of SFP (24th 11:00)
(immeasurable)
Reactor pressure
(A) 0.340MPaG, (B) 0.491MPaG (30th 13:00)
Reactor pressure
(A) -0.023MPaG, (B) -0.023MPaG (30th 13:00)
Reactor pressure
(A) 0.018MPaG, (B) -0.095MPaG (30th 13:00)
CV pressure
0.230MPaabs (30th 13:00)
CV pressure
0.100MPaabs (30th 13:00)
CV pressure
0.1064MPaabs (30th 13:00)
RPV temperature (at feed water line nozzle)
270.1℃ (30th 13:00)
Water temperature of SFP
48℃ (30th 13:00)
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:35:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:35:04 AM" ) )6:35 PM
-
But FWIW, Cesium DOES have a RELATIVELY short half-life at 30 years, Plutonium 244 has a half-life of 80 million years...
by Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:34:17 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:34:17 AM" ) )6:34 PM
-
Now about time for Edano to extend the evacuation zone, c'me on, boy !
by Matsuoko at 3/31/2011 12:34:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:34:14 AM" ) )6:34 PM
-
@Duncan I'll try to find some conversion tables. But the reading you provided is in nGy. 1 nGy is 0.000000001 Gy. That sounds quite low to me.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:34:05 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:34:05 AM" ) )6:34 PM
-
That is not fog obscuring the tower is it? it has to be smoke because the towers further back are well defined
by elainekirk at 3/31/2011 12:33:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:33:57 AM" ) )6:33 PM
-
@Optim: I don't know, I guess Dean could answer more than me; my work is not related to nuclear plants so I don't know all the details; just know about mechanics and physics...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:32:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:32:59 AM" ) )6:32 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus - This is what I was thinking. That map doesn't really tell us anything if we are unable to make a conversion. I can see a lot of people looking at that map and being worried. Especially due to the simplified colour referencing chart. Thanks for your help.
by Duncan at 3/31/2011 12:32:08 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:32:08 AM" ) )6:32 PM
-
@wtm: I'm sure: if #2 containment vessel pressure really is .1 MPa, it might be a little under atmospheric pressure and it could mean the captor is in a slighty depressed area. If the measure is not precise and it's near .108, then yes it might be breached.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:31:14 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:31:14 AM" ) )6:31 PM
-
@all, new JAIF report should be up in about an hour.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:30:55 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:30:55 AM" ) )6:30 PM
-
Can someone clarify a link I found from something posted earlier by Sin:
epa.gov Is that supposed to be the iodine isotopes we've been discussing?
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:30:37 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:30:37 AM" ) )6:30 PM
-
@Duncan I don't know. I'm not ware of what weighting factors are used for humans. There must be some tables out there. Gy measures the amount of radiation absorbed by materials whereas Sv measures the amount of radiation absorbed by human tissue. I can only guess weighting factors will vary but there should be some reference factors to make the conversion.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:30:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:30:03 AM" ) )6:30 PM
-
@Jo Lindien: When load testing these reactors,,,do they actually simulate these kind of scenarios? do they actually test? Or this testing is even beyond worst case scenario?
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:29:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:29:58 AM" ) )6:29 PM
-
One thing is clear from this any nuclear site should have no more than two reators at any given time..... the resource to address more and spent fuel is just not manageable.... and this is the third major incident in my life time... surry is 8 miles away .... they have to evacuate here in 24 hour shifts by land areas just for hurricance..
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:29:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:29:03 AM" ) )6:29 PM
-
@Optim: I don't see an obvious way to cool #3 reactor without leaking water. Maybe by spraying concrete all around in the building to try to fix the breach ? Maybe building walls around the building and make it a huge pool ?
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:28:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:28:49 AM" ) )6:28 PM
-
@Jo, that would then account for the .1 pressure reading at the containment vessel, i t is the same as outside air pressure, meaning it is breached or cracked some how.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:28:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:28:15 AM" ) )6:28 PM
-
@Optim: I think for #2 reactor, there might be a way to restore automatic cooling if they can isolate the part of the torus leaking from the rest of the primary cooling system.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:27:22 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:27:22 AM" ) )6:27 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus - Ah I see. Well from the map it states Kanagawa is at 126 nGy/h. What exactly does that mean in terms of health?
by Duncan at 3/31/2011 12:26:27 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:26:27 AM" ) )6:26 PM
-
@Optim: they are injecting about 120 l/min in #2 reactor and 200 l/min in #3. This water is obviously leaking, as the water level does not increase, the pressure are stable. From my interpretation of data we have, the water is leaking from #3 containment vessel and #2 suppression pool; this last fact is consistent with what was reported of #2 explosion.
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:26:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:26:02 AM" ) )6:26 PM
-
@Jo lindien: In that case how can they fix this? Since water is leaking even if automatic cooling comes on..radioactive water will still be a problem. Seriously...tough tough problem..Add 3 reactors on top of that and this is a mess
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:25:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:25:47 AM" ) )6:25 PM
-
@ElaineKirk Sorry, your are of course correct, 30 years on C137, I was thinking of Ba-137m which has a half-life of about 2.55 minutes.
by Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:25:03 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:25:03 AM" ) )6:25 PM
-
All I am saying is that #3 is now paralleling the readings of #2. If we know that #2 is breached, there is now a good possibility that # 3 is now also. It looks like they may have averted things in #1 for the time being. Will have to see what the next JAIF readings look like.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:24:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:24:29 AM" ) )6:24 PM
-
@Duncan You need a weighing factor to convert Gy (Gray) to Sv (Sievert): 1 Sv = 1 Gy * w (weighing factor)
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:23:48 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:23:48 AM" ) )6:23 PM
-
@gabe Lecture JUST ended. They recorded it and should have it cued back up shortly.
by Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:23:41 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:23:41 AM" ) )6:23 PM
-
@Sin Okay, I'm a little freaked out by the link to Idaho monitoring. They're saying that graph shows radioactivity from Japan?
by pj at 3/31/2011 12:23:17 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:23:17 AM" ) )6:23 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus Thats what TEPCO is saying
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:22:46 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:22:46 AM" ) )6:22 PM
-
@Optim Correct. The problem is they must keep topping off the water, but then radiated water seeps out since the water is probably coming in contact with damaged fuel. Tough tough situation.
by Rhonda Douglas at 3/31/2011 12:22:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:22:42 AM" ) )6:22 PM
-
@Rob in SF Link not working for me...working for you?
by gabe at 3/31/2011 12:22:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:22:18 AM" ) )6:22 PM
-
In regards to the target map, what level in mSv/h is 100-300 nGy/h?
by Duncan at 3/31/2011 12:20:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:20:30 AM" ) )6:20 PM
-
@Jo lindien: If there is leakage how does reactor still hold water. They will have to spray #2 24/7 to stop it from being empty
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:20:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:20:15 AM" ) )6:20 PM
-
@jo sitting here gobsmacked, brilliant
by elainekirk at 3/31/2011 12:19:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:19:50 AM" ) )6:19 PM
-
@Jo Lindien I see. We still need more data.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:19:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:19:12 AM" ) )6:19 PM
-
Margaret Harding of Iowa State University is currently conducting a lecture on the latest developments at Fukushima. She has thirty years of experience in the nuclear industry. She was Vice President of Engineering Quality at GE Nuclear Energy and is now a consultant to the nuclear power industry. She serves on Iowa State's Engineering College Industrial Advisory Council and has an undergraduate degree from Iowa State. This is a live lecture.
www.extension.iastate.eduby Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:18:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:18:59 AM" ) )6:18 PM
-
in my opinion negative pressure is quite good and bad:
- the good is that it mean that the reactor has no breach above the water level or the outside air would come inside and the pressure would be 1 atm
- the bad thing is that it means there's a breach somewhere below. The pressure difference is likely due to the weight of the column of water above the leak. As we know #2 is leaking this is not a surprise...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:18:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:18:13 AM" ) )6:18 PM
-
@Jo I got a bit confused. You were talking about quantum mechanics and then I read the negative pressure comment, my head started spinning.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:18:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:18:12 AM" ) )6:18 PM
-
by Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:18:04 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:18:04 AM" ) )6:18 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Brilliant Jo. Much appreciated.
by es at 3/31/2011 12:17:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:17:40 AM" ) )6:17 PM
-
by dtinla at 3/31/2011 12:17:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:17:25 AM" ) )6:17 PM
-
@Jo Lindien @dean this issue with a vacuum, unless negative pressure here has differnt meaning.... does the fuel going into meltdown consume the air ... as would a fire? and if you have a breach ie:no water would it not equilize by pulling the air/steam inward
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:17:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:17:06 AM" ) )6:17 PM
-
@rob in sf Cesium does not have a short life !!! it has an extremely long life!!
by elainekirk at 3/31/2011 12:16:52 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:16:52 AM" ) )6:16 PM
-
Not sure if this has been posted: "High Radiation outside Japan's Exclusion Zone."
www.nytimes.comby DinNYC at 3/31/2011 12:16:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:16:50 AM" ) )6:16 PM
-
by Sin at 3/31/2011 12:16:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:16:13 AM" ) )6:16 PM
-
@Rob: But more radioactivity means more cesium right? anywayys..cesium is not the only harmful radioactive element....
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:16:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:16:12 AM" ) )6:16 PM
-
Thanks Dean and Jo for the education!
by gabe at 3/31/2011 12:16:07 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:16:07 AM" ) )6:16 PM
-
i will be back later.. I must go eat...
j
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:15:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:15:47 AM" ) )6:15 PM
-
@wtm But what does that mean? That the pressure inside the reactor is below atmospheric pressure? That would highly conflict with the breach theory, am I wrong?
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:15:35 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:15:35 AM" ) )6:15 PM
-
@dean: thanks ;)
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:15:27 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:15:27 AM" ) )6:15 PM
-
from start of core uncovering scilla.. theory
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:15:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:15:10 AM" ) )6:15 PM
-
by
VeenOui via
Pointscope01.jp at 3/31/2011 12:14:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:58 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
@Optim I believe in this instance they are referring to the relatively short half-life of Cesium when they allege radioactivity will decrease.
by Rob in SF at 3/31/2011 12:14:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:42 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
@dean. Within 60 to 92 hours from when?
by Scilla at 3/31/2011 12:14:34 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:34 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
we don't care if your off a tinch later in the 2 week period.. we're givin you that dang nobel award anyways.. .
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:14:33 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:33 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Remember please that it's not too long since they were talking about the high pressure and temperature in the RPV of 3. Where did all this go? The pressure wont sink as long as the temperature is high enough to keep the water in vapor form. Where did the pressure go? Leaks?
by Salvador at 3/31/2011 12:14:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:31 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus: negative pressure... relative to atmospheric pressure
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:14:30 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:30 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
Ok....quick primer from someone...negative pressure???? Pressure in reactor vessel less than outside? Good- bad-worse?
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:14:22 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:14:22 AM" ) )6:14 PM
-
your observations are accurate jo.. really from the early parts of this.. they map what happens..
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:13:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:13:47 AM" ) )6:13 PM
-
right jo.. a bunch of water if you could imagine could reach the fuel where ever it is and steam like mad and the steam goes up the vessel and raised it's pressure.. and then the containment but the torus remains lower.. then all of a sudden the torus raises.. ...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:13:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:13:18 AM" ) )6:13 PM
-
@all: "everything can happen": just a quantic joke, no fear...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:13:13 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:13:13 AM" ) )6:13 PM
-
@Pedro, JAIF reports are showing negative pressure readings on the #2 &3 reactor vessels.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:12:50 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:12:50 AM" ) )6:12 PM
-
@dean: yes, Fukushima is in pure quantic physics range now: everything can happen, given an unknown probability...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:12:10 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:12:10 AM" ) )6:12 PM
-
some of my engineering friends had said that melting will occur and breach within 60-92 hours or so... they didn't have any equations to show that tho.. just combined experience in extreme accident analysis.. it's just hard to say ..
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:11:59 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:11:59 AM" ) )6:11 PM
-
I agree - I just don't know how they can print such things!
by leela at 3/31/2011 12:11:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:11:18 AM" ) )6:11 PM
-
@wtm Excuse me, negative pressure? What do you mean by that?
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:10:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:10:39 AM" ) )6:10 PM
-
@leela: That explanation will probably not even fool elementary school students. Radiation levels have been increasing since last 10 days. MSN is owned by GE right? just sayin.....
by Optim at 3/31/2011 12:10:34 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:10:34 AM" ) )6:10 PM
-
OR HAVE them go stand over the spent fuel pool and start cleaning up debris
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:10:24 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:10:24 AM" ) )6:10 PM
-
@wtm: the reactor vessel has lost its pressure since then but has not dropped as fast as the containment vessel: it took almost 4 days of pressure decreasing until it reached the conditions it is now. In some way we can say #3 is stable: conditions have not changed for a week, it just act like a huge barometer since 03/24...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:10:05 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:10:05 AM" ) )6:10 PM
-
MSNBC..needs to attend our room discussions so they can pursuade us to believe that way to... BOGUS...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:09:58 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:09:58 AM" ) )6:09 PM
-
Msnbc article makes it sound like there's no more radiation being emitted - levels will only drop, won't increase.... huh? they say: "The FDA said such findings are to be expected in the coming days because of the nuclear crisis in Japan, and the levels are expected to drop relatively (soon?). (Iodine-131 has a very short half-life — only about eight days.)
www.msnbc.msn.comby leela at 3/31/2011 12:09:06 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:09:06 AM" ) )6:09 PM
-
@Jo, @Dean, #2 they say is definitely breached, and it is showing a negative pressure on the reactor vessel, #3 readings are starting to go the same way as the #2 unit, so judging from that I would think there is a good thought that #3 is also breached. Also I wouldn't think the containment vessel would be normal outside air pressure, not if it had a super heated reaction going on in it unless it has somehow itself breached and equalized with the outside air ???
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:08:39 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:08:39 AM" ) )6:08 PM
-
p1v1=p2v2 .. except for fukushima...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:08:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:08:29 AM" ) )6:08 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Yes, when temperature increases they vent the reactor to control the inner pressure. I don't know if this process is controlled by a computer at the moment or if it is done manually which could explain the abnormal variations you are seeing in the data.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:08:26 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:08:26 AM" ) )6:08 PM
-
those good old laws of physics have some wild constants in this case...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:07:42 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:07:42 AM" ) )6:07 PM
-
keep doing that jo.. until proven otherwise,,,, that way the only plausable answer may be from some of the theories people throw around
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:07:15 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:07:15 AM" ) )6:07 PM
-
not sure or haven't heart on that miles... I'll bet there will be 4-5000 workers in time
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:06:31 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:06:31 AM" ) )6:06 PM
-
@dean: sure hard to tell... I try to use facts & logic to figure how things can be inside...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:06:29 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:06:29 AM" ) )6:06 PM
-
Has anyone heard if TEPCO intends on hiring more workers?
by Miles at 3/31/2011 12:05:47 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:05:47 AM" ) )6:05 PM
-
@dean if you get a chance would you look at them and give me your opinion if you think the designations of locations would be accurate... example one steam shuttoff inside containmet vessel secondary outside vessel, inside building.... I would assume the components shown would be within the boundries they show, but only assumming... would like a second opioin
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:05:26 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:05:26 AM" ) )6:05 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus: yes but I note that the level has been reported stable from 03/14 to 03/20 16:00 and pressure began to drop between 03/20 07:30 and 03/20 14:00
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:05:22 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:05:22 AM" ) )6:05 PM
-
@Optim Probably coming from the same people who stated without reservation that radiation from Fukushima would never reach the US. I'm having trouble trusting anything I read or hear these days.
by James Ward at 3/31/2011 12:04:38 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:04:38 AM" ) )6:04 PM
-
hard to tell jo... with the melt, perhaps reseal can happen.. or other variables.. very hard to say for postive
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:04:12 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:04:12 AM" ) )6:04 PM
-
@dean: if the reactor vessel would be breached, it should also be at 1 atm pressure, no ? Seems like it's not...
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:03:19 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:03:19 AM" ) )6:03 PM
-
there have been reports of theories of how pressure or steam or water leaks can get between the normally sealed areas.. they showed it on the fairewinds presentation...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:03:07 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:03:07 AM" ) )6:03 PM
-
@Jo, wouldn't that make sense if the reactor vessel had to breach first, then the containment vessel ??? If that is the case #1 was getting close to breaching the reactor vessel.
by wtm at 3/31/2011 12:02:40 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:02:40 AM" ) )6:02 PM
-
@Jo Lindien the pics link above has three P&ID drawings they used in a new breifing, English only for me so i don't know its this plant, but you can chase the lines...
by fitter at 3/31/2011 12:02:11 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:02:11 AM" ) )6:02 PM
-
and.. jo.. if the reactor vessel is breached due to the fuel melt all conditions change
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:01:49 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:01:49 AM" ) )6:01 PM
-
@Jo Lindien I'm not sure about those readings might indicate but I can tell you there is a direct relationship between pressure and temperature. There is also a inverse relationship between the volume of water used to cool down the containment vessel and the temperature inside. The more water they put in, the more the temperature drops and when the temperature inside the reactor drops, the inner pressure will drop also. The variations, however, are not linear since there are other variables in the equation that we cannot measure at this point.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/31/2011 12:01:44 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:01:44 AM" ) )6:01 PM
-
the concrete containment usually isn't seeing much pressure.. other than in US reactors they are slightly pressurized because they run them inert...
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:00:56 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:00:56 AM" ) )6:00 PM
-
@NHK Listener: from the data I collected about #3 reactor, the water level had not changed when the pressure rose: it was about the same as it's now. It suddenly change _up_ after the pressure started to drop
by Jo Lindien at 3/31/2011 12:00:54 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:00:54 AM" ) )6:00 PM
-
jo.. probably from primary system relief valve lifting. increasing the pressure in the torus then from a breach or other valve etc.. pressurizing up the containment
by dean at 3/31/2011 12:00:18 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/31/2011 12:00:18 AM" ) )6:00 PM
-
science people has any one looked at Jefferson Labs i think they have a web... accealerater facility here in VA or CERN in switzerland.. another accr facility
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:59:20 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:59:20 PM" ) )5:59 PM
-
by Optim at 3/30/2011 11:59:12 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:59:12 PM" ) )5:59 PM
-
@dean: how could it be that #3 containment vessel pressure would have been higher than in the reactor ?
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:58:42 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:58:42 PM" ) )5:58 PM
-
the molten debris.. called corium.. stays in place where ever it is forever
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:58:41 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:58:41 PM" ) )5:58 PM
-
@wtm: #1 is reported to be at .5 MPa in the reactor vessel but "only" .285 MPa in the containment vessel. #3 was reported up to .7 MPa in the containment vessel ! And was at .384 MPa in the containment vessel while the reactor was "only" .317: then the containment seem to have broken. It does not seem to me to be the same situation than #1 now.
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:58:17 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:58:17 PM" ) )5:58 PM
-
by JPH at 3/30/2011 11:58:15 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:58:15 PM" ) )5:58 PM
-
@fitter I'm sure you have a lot of stories to tell about. Ever considered writing a book about your experience there?
by Pedro Jesus at 3/30/2011 11:58:04 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:58:04 PM" ) )5:58 PM
-
@dean How do they clean up molten nuclear fuel? Just cool it down over months/years? Then concrete them?
by Rhonda Douglas at 3/30/2011 11:57:49 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:57:49 PM" ) )5:57 PM
-
@Rhonda, that would be a question for Dean
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:57:46 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:57:46 PM" ) )5:57 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus no they are retired or no longer there due to the retirement of the shuttle program.. it was about 20 years ago....
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:57:06 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:57:06 PM" ) )5:57 PM
-
strange stuff optim
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:57:00 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:57:00 PM" ) )5:57 PM
-
@wtm If #2 (and #3?) have melted through the bottom, what exactly can be done?
by Rhonda Douglas at 3/30/2011 11:56:58 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:56:58 PM" ) )5:56 PM
-
@Rhonda Douglas That expert used the conditional. So he's only implying that that is a possibility. He didn't use the expression probably. He also said that he's not in hold of enough data to make a serious analysis (can't remember his exact words) of the situation. He's was only theorizing about a potential worse case scenario.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/30/2011 11:56:45 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:56:45 PM" ) )5:56 PM
-
@fitter March 23, 2011 Can NASA Satellites Monitor Radiation Plumes from the Fukushima Disaster?
blogs.nasa.govby dtinla at 3/30/2011 11:56:37 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:56:37 PM" ) )5:56 PM
-
YES Rhonda... fukushima will never run again.. maybe .. possibly plants 5 & 6 BUT they have to be recertified in my opinion... the others are lost and are trying to be placed slowly into a stable enough condition to begin the long process of exhuming them ,,, quite likely .. years... and billions of dollars...
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:56:32 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:56:32 PM" ) )5:56 PM
-
The bloomberg article about radioactivity in milk claims washington state govt officials saying that radioactivity levels go down. How is it possible? Wind has been flowing from Japan towards Pacific all along and radioactivity probably increased in last 10 days...How can radioactivity decrease then? All hogwash?
by Optim at 3/30/2011 11:56:08 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:56:08 PM" ) )5:56 PM
-
@Jo Linden, the #1 reactor is doing the same thing, I think that they may have saved it a little by getting additional 50mm of water in it last night. The temps and pressure have been way up there (.500), last JAIF report is showing it starting to decline, with a higher water level in the reactor. I was trying to see if anyone knew what the design pressure was for the unit ??? If the # 3 blew at .700 area then #1 was getting close. As far as #2 & 3, they are showing negative pressure readings. Since they say # 2 has probably melted through, might that also show that # 3 has also. A reading of .1 in the CPV means that it is the same as the outside air pressure. Don't know if that would be normal or show that it has somehow leaked and is open to the outside air.
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:54:10 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:54:10 PM" ) )5:54 PM
-
@fitter Don't you have inside connections that could confirm that news?
by Pedro Jesus at 3/30/2011 11:54:10 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:54:10 PM" ) )5:54 PM
-
I read today that a nuclear expert says the fuel in #3 probably melted and burned through the bottom. He acted as if the Japanese are fighting a losing battle. Is this something shared by other sources?
by Rhonda Douglas at 3/30/2011 11:53:58 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:53:58 PM" ) )5:53 PM
-
@all: I figured 2 strange facts, that I think might be related and might be possible to explain:
- during the pressure drop, the water level in the reactor was reported as increasing about ~40cm then slowly decreased to its previous level
- during the drop the pressure in the suppression pool has been reported up to .8 MPa, which seems not realistic (and was reported likely to be a false value), but who knows...
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:53:50 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:53:50 PM" ) )5:53 PM
-
@Pedro Jesus yea but they can get some sit done.... worked there for several years.. its a hard place to focus, they are always blowing things up (o purpose or running some kind of test) when i retire you could NOT pay me to work there... lunch at the liabary is great!!!!
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:53:06 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:53:06 PM" ) )5:53 PM
-
I think It's a good idea aswell.
by caraBnr at 3/30/2011 11:52:36 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:52:36 PM" ) )5:52 PM
-
that sounds like you need to put it in the document for the other room deal on FB... marie.. GOOD WORK
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:51:31 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:51:31 PM" ) )5:51 PM
-
Stray dogs, abandoned cows... and the rice farmers who refuse to go: The only living things left in Japan's nuclear no-man's land www.dailymail.co.uk [IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/29/article-1371103-0B628E1D00000578-774_634x286.jpg[/IMG]
by
Rob in SF via
I.dailymail.co.uk at 3/30/2011 11:51:26 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:51:26 PM" ) )5:51 PM
-
one thing about all the sampling and stuff.... if.. in some of those areas they went out and sampled to those minute levels they would report.. they found traces of contamination but the milk is ok.. .around these and other areas of the world they have the same thing.. I see. keep it in perspective
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:50:44 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:50:44 PM" ) )5:50 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Could just changing the amount of water being pumped in change the pressures?
by NHK Listener at 3/30/2011 11:49:55 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:49:55 PM" ) )5:49 PM
-
@dean as silly as it sounds, a firefighter in Fl. is marketing the hyper-absorbent material in diapers as a fire suppressent. It can be sprayed on. It they could use this to HOLD the water on units, with boronated water (topped off by pipi from pump), and then put that special amterial (Tyvek?) over it to contain steam...??
by marie rich at 3/30/2011 11:49:49 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:49:49 PM" ) )5:49 PM
-
yep... jo.. gets the group nobel prize award... well done JO.. .we're all proud of you ...
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:49:26 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:49:26 PM" ) )5:49 PM
-
Wall Street Journal: "EPA Says Radiation Found in U.S. Milk" QUOTE: "The U.S. government said Wednesday that traces of radiation have been found in milk in Washington state, but said the amounts are well below levels of public health concern."
online.wsj.comby James Ward at 3/30/2011 11:49:15 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:49:15 PM" ) )5:49 PM
-
@fitter If NASA gets involved then we can all forget about updated news.
by Pedro Jesus at 3/30/2011 11:49:12 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:49:12 PM" ) )5:49 PM
-
@all: then I think the containment vessel broke due to over-pressure the 03/20 somewhere between 07:30 and 14:00, not at the time of the explosion
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:48:54 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:48:54 PM" ) )5:48 PM
-
@Jo Lindien Great stuff Jo.
by es at 3/30/2011 11:48:20 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:48:20 PM" ) )5:48 PM
-
Clay lined evaporation pits for holding contaminated water until something better comes along?
by JMV at 3/30/2011 11:47:48 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:47:48 PM" ) )5:47 PM
-
someone asked about decay heat, if you can imagine coming out of an outage where they refueled the reactor,, if they ran for 1 day and shut down there would be virtually minimal decay heat to remove from the elements in the core, so.. there is a curve that they use for decay heat removal land it sort of starts out with 0% at time 0 then increases to approximatelyl 10 % of the rated capacity of the reactor... so if the reactor is rated at 1000MW THERMAL power the decay heat would be 100 MW.. which is huge.. .when the reactor just shuts down
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:47:43 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:47:43 PM" ) )5:47 PM
-
@all: something strange happened during the 03/19 to 03/20 night:
- at 18:30 the pressures were reported by NISA to be .187 MPa in the reactor and .210 MPa in the containment vessel
- 03/20 07:30 it topped to .317 in the reactor and .34 in the containment vessel
=> at this time we can think none were broken, due to those high pressures
- pressure then started to drop and reached the atmospheric pressure in the containment vessel on 03/21 between 14:00 and 16:00
- since then, the containment vessel has is at 1 atm
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:47:24 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:47:24 PM" ) )5:47 PM
-
has any one heard anything about NASA being involved
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:46:50 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:46:50 PM" ) )5:46 PM
-
I halfway expect them to dump at least a portion of the radiated water into the ocean when nobody is looking. They know the ocean will dilute the numbers.
by Miles at 3/30/2011 11:46:29 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:46:29 PM" ) )5:46 PM
-
they don't want water from the high rad areas and highly contaminated out to the ocean I dont think.. so if they don't it all stockpiles up in the facilities...
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:44:32 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:44:32 PM" ) )5:44 PM
-
so far has anyone heard of water that is being discharged from the normal routes from the plants..
by dean edited by George Gibb at 3/30/2011 11:43:12 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:43:12 PM" ) )5:43 PM
-
@Jo you may laff. Wouldn't blame you. But last still shot of Tepco cam @19:00hrs was the first time I saw glow. Also know there was a fairly large rad spike then. Also, on the 20th they put out alot more moniutoring stations,esp to the south. I have noticed "tendrils" of things that ghave made me start to try to put it together...IDK
by marie rich at 3/30/2011 11:42:51 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:42:51 PM" ) )5:42 PM
-
@Rob, that is great news, hope they can do something for them !!!!
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:42:49 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:42:49 PM" ) )5:42 PM
-
scilla, I think they will soon find that out for the efforts they are now trying.. pumping water every where that is extremely radioactively hot.. it will come to that in time..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:42:09 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:42:09 PM" ) )5:42 PM
-
@all: about #3 reactor and its breakage:
- I found no data before 03/14
- before the 03/14 explosion JAIF says Tepco reported the pressure in the containment vessel was increasing above .7 MPa. After the explosion, it was reported by NISA to be .335 MPa at 19:30. It topped again at .415 MPa on 03/15 then decreased. Pressure was then reported ~1atm in the reactor 03/18 14:00 JST and .155 MPa in the containment
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:41:54 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:54 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
At Tepco’s request, five AREVA experts are flying to Japan to provide assistance to the operator of the Fukushima nuclear power plant. They are accompanied by AREVA CEO Anne Lauvergeon, who will arrive in the Japanese capital in the evening.
The group’s experts are joining the AREVA Japan team to consider how best to help Tepco in managing the crisis at the Fukushima power plant. They are experts in radioactive effluent treatment and in the management of used fuel storage pools. March 30, 2011
www.areva.comby Rob in SF at 3/30/2011 11:41:40 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:40 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
@dean, same here !!!
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:41:34 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:34 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
@dean i would not think you could put concreate on hot fuel..... we use a concrete that set in several hours, cures in a week or so, but not in this enviroment... can concrete cure under "these Hot temps"
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:41:23 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:23 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
yw cara..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:41:22 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:22 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
Someone asked if the water in the turbine basements could be cycled back thru. In this video mr. Gundersen's opinion is no. Pumps would become so radioactive that workers couldn't get near them.
www.fairewinds.comby Scilla at 3/30/2011 11:41:17 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:41:17 PM" ) )5:41 PM
-
@ Dean, Thanks for your thoughts, makes me feel like someone's listening
by caraBnr at 3/30/2011 11:40:38 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:40:38 PM" ) )5:40 PM
-
I would like to see these combinations of materials used perhaps in different ways at each plant where access is and, in addition the use of some kind of foam material sprayed on the main floors or areas around to contain the surface contamination from spreading..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:40:23 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:40:23 PM" ) )5:40 PM
-
cara, in response to your question, in my opinion only .. .the access to these areas is limited and they don't know what the status is for in the reactor or the spent fuel pools, some of the spent fuel pools would be difficult to get to and the buildings due to the very high radition levels... so.. although it's possible to use those it would be very high in rad dose to the workers.. but maybe they will do something like that in time
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:38:37 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:38:37 PM" ) )5:38 PM
-
@all if you watch the cnn vedio on the new york nuke, they have had (I believe) a water leak on the hot side for like 8 years, son't know were... BUT ITS OK BECAUSE IT STAYS ON THE CONTAINMET VESSEL.... GO FIGURE... AND TEPCO has to figure out there leak... i've been saying all week ... chasing a water leak is a real BI..ch"
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:38:23 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:38:23 PM" ) )5:38 PM
-
@dean, my thought was that if they could at least get one done, it would start freeing up their resources, and if all four were accomplished, then all the resources could be turned towards the reactors. I am sure some of the radioactivity that is stopping them from working maybe coming from the SPF's. They already have the concrete pumpers there, hanging over the building, just have to put the proper stuff in it.
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:37:54 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:37:54 PM" ) )5:37 PM
-
@wtm I think they will try to cool the rods/corium as much as possible before entombing. Sand and lead were initially tried at Chernobyl. Sand covered the molten mass but did virtually nothing to slow/stop the reaction. The lead worked for blocking radiation until scientists realized much of it vaporized and was ingested by the local population. Lead is still detectable in people that lived nearby.
by Miles at 3/30/2011 11:37:52 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:37:52 PM" ) )5:37 PM
-
by
dtinla via
W3land.mlit.go.jp at 3/30/2011 11:37:23 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:37:23 PM" ) )5:37 PM
-
@dean - re: sand. I wonder if there's an engineered product that would fill this function (granular, absorbive) but could lock when compressed - something crafted into the shape of the granules
by Alin at 3/30/2011 11:37:18 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:37:18 PM" ) )5:37 PM
-
Any thoughts at all or am I just way off base
by caraBnr at 3/30/2011 11:36:51 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:36:51 PM" ) )5:36 PM
-
by Jim Carver at 3/30/2011 11:36:44 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:36:44 PM" ) )5:36 PM
-
I wrote about using dry ice or liquid CO2 to slow the progression of the water leak... and possibly using a natural gass drill horizontally to inject areas with water or what ever to slow things down
by caraBnr at 3/30/2011 11:36:20 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:36:20 PM" ) )5:36 PM
-
that was a bad post, plz excuse me while i try again
by dtinla at 3/30/2011 11:34:53 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:53 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
@Matsuoko i was just stopping by so i don't have time to pull up larger pic, but in US alot of systems are color coded (paint etc) so you can trace them, keep people from going into the wrong system or shutting off a valve on the wrong system, but Japan seems to be very much more relaxed than US
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:34:46 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:46 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
wtm.. I believe in the back of their minds they are all thinking of some sort of phased introduction of sand, perhaps some other material for neutron absorption, and maybe material to seal any cracks or openings in the walls or penetrations. I just don't think it's the right time to do it yet and it will take a long time for engineering to be done..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:34:35 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:35 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
They seem to use rather confusing units in describing activity inventories found in water. If I've understood correctly, this reference level of "water in a reactor operating normally" is some kind of a typical value of primary coolant activity in some fictitious representative reactor running with no fuel leakages (and excluding the N-16 gammas). Similarly, they give the iodine activities discovered in sea outside the plant as a multiplies of a reference value 40 Bq/kg, the basis of which is somewhat unclear at least to me and those I've talked to.
This person on another blog, put it quite well concerning the confusion with units.
"The way I see it, it would be much more clear if they would simply give the activities in Bq/kg and do the comparisons to some practical reference levels separately, if such are needed. " I certainly agree, to make matters worse, however, TEPCO reports are given in Bq/cm3. Is it a coincidence that this makes the numbers smaller?
by Jim Carver at 3/30/2011 11:34:25 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:25 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
by
dtinla via
Lib.utexas.edu at 3/30/2011 11:34:23 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:23 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
I know Im no nuclear scientist.... but I would appreciate some feedback on my ideas...
by caraBnr at 3/30/2011 11:34:08 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:34:08 PM" ) )5:34 PM
-
fitter.. from what I saw on the presentations by the former TMI manager on the webside www.fairewinds.com/multimedia, the water in those trenches they have been talking about is reading somewhere around 100 REM/hr, which prohibits too much work in that area...
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:32:17 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:32:17 PM" ) )5:32 PM
-
@matsuoko @fitter it was the fitting on the end that made me curious ty for yr help
by elainekirk at 3/30/2011 11:32:01 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:32:01 PM" ) )5:32 PM
-
@dean how hard equipment was is it to extract seawater...i suspect the flooded water has salt that they don't want, i only know about reverse osmosis... don't think they have that capability there, can it be run through filter?
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:30:40 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:30:40 PM" ) )5:30 PM
-
Here's the recriticality article by Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress: What Was The Cause Of The High Cl-38 Radioactivity In The Fukushima Daiichi Reactor #1
lewis.armscontrolwonk.com by Reed at 3/30/2011 11:30:06 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:30:06 PM" ) )5:30 PM
-
Question for somebody in the nuclear industry ?? Wouldn't it be prudent or is it possible to try to encase the SPF's in sand, lead bearings, concrete ??? Effectively entomb them ! If possible, that would accomplish two things. One, eliminate possible spew of radioactivity from the open top SPF's and two, to allow the crews to concentrate on the reactors.
by wtm at 3/30/2011 11:28:01 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:28:01 PM" ) )5:28 PM
-
@elainekirk @fitter : there are more blueish tubes out there i saw one near #4, too. it is clearly atube.
by Matsuoko at 3/30/2011 11:27:48 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:27:48 PM" ) )5:27 PM
-
@elainekirk sorry hi wrong key .. don't know how to explain.. process pipe is smooth along the outside until you get to a joint where they weld two piece together.... has a circular raised section about 1" wide.... duct piping for exhaust is sprially formed so it has much shorter shection (process is usually 20 - 40 foot between welds
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:27:39 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:27:39 PM" ) )5:27 PM
-
those photo's are to notch.. compared to what we have.. look at the one that is accross the way from unit 1 where the siding is all blown off the the shock wave of the blast... I tried to enlarge the photos but they became grainy.. and was hard to see much ... anyone have the skills to magnify and keep clarity/
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:27:22 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:27:22 PM" ) )5:27 PM
-
[IAEA report 30TH March] "With respect to the water that is present in the turbine buildings. In Unit 1, water has continued to be pumped into the condenser with 3 pumps (6.5 ton/hour each) and the water level has reduced from 40cm to 20cm. In Unit 2 from 07.45 UTC, pumping of water from the Condensate Storage Tank into the Surge Tank was started so that the that condenser can be drained to the Condensate Storage Tank and contaminated water can be pumped out from the Turbine building into the condenser. The same process of pumping the water from the Condensed Water Storage Tank into the Surge Tank was started on Unit 3 at 08.40 UTCon March 28."
www.iaea.orgby Pedro Jesus at 3/30/2011 11:25:54 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:25:54 PM" ) )5:25 PM
-
at this point.. they are doing just that with #2 plant water I believe.. they are pumping out from one area to another and will store as much water in areas that have empty tanks etc in the building but will also keep fresh water going in ..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:24:14 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:24:14 PM" ) )5:24 PM
-
@elainekirk looks like exhaust pipe see the spirial welds
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:23:53 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:23:53 PM" ) )5:23 PM
-
I still believe that nancy.. the piping and where they put the water to have walls in the pipe and concrete areas that will act as a heat sink.. and it's better than having the water outside pouring all over..
by dean at 3/30/2011 11:23:11 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:23:11 PM" ) )5:23 PM
-
@elaine. That looks better than the image we were working with. That one shows it much more of a tube than something flat. There is a large section of missing vent pipe on #4
by Nancy at 3/30/2011 11:22:46 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:22:46 PM" ) )5:22 PM
-
@all: has anyone an idea of what happened to the plant during the night from 03/19 to 03/20 and 03/20 morning ? Maybe nothing special was reported ?
by Jo Lindien at 3/30/2011 11:22:21 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:22:21 PM" ) )5:22 PM
-
@Nancy - need to dump heat first or you are losing efficiency
by Alin at 3/30/2011 11:21:47 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:21:47 PM" ) )5:21 PM
-
@sims, I asked Dean that the other day. He said it was completely plausible to do. It would concentrate more radioactivity into the water but it is already contaminated. The thought was to pump what is in the tunnels and condensers back through.
by Nancy at 3/30/2011 11:20:39 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:20:39 PM" ) )5:20 PM
-
@sims i would guess its sea water
by fitter at 3/30/2011 11:19:38 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:19:38 PM" ) )5:19 PM
-
There is a human element, to be observed in all this. We ought to be observers with a certain degreee of objectivity as social scientists, as well. But to observe a culture under these circumstances -well this is data collection too.
by Pat at 3/30/2011 11:17:56 PMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/30/2011 11:17:56 PM" ) )5:17 PM
